But Is It A Roleplaying Game?

I feel no shame in admitting that for the last three years, my free time has been largely filled with the Pathfinder Adventure Card Game ("Pathfinder").  The remaining hours have been spent playing various board games with family and friends.  I have yet to participate in a paper & pencil roleplaying game since moving to St. Albert.

Pathfinder has filled the space normally reserved for roleplaying games.  I play with two groups, one on Wednesdays and the other on Sundays.  One of things I enjoy about the game is that we can complete a five-to-six player Pathfinder adventure in under two hours.

Coming soon, but not soon enough ... Mummy's Mask Base Set, October 2016

With Pathfinder, no on acts as Dungeonmaster.  After someone reads, aloud, a two-minute scenario outline, we collectively build the adventure locations in under 10 minutes.  From there, the game essentially runs itself.

I've been writing about card-based roleplaying games on this blog for the last six years.  One of the earliest card-based games I became interested in was Dungeoneer, a competitive fantasy adventure game from 2003.

Designed and illustrated by Thomas Denmark, each player competed to be the first to finish three quests.  Atlas Games released at least 8 different Dungeoneer adventure decks, but no new content has been published since 2007.  Would I love to see this game resurrected as a cooperative game with new content?  You bet.  If you can still find Dungeoneer in your FLGS, I recommend buying a large 110-card pack and giving Dungeoneer a try.

Pathfinder, by contrast, is a cooperative game, and was first published in 2012.  Although other card-driven fantasy games have since been released, Pathfinder still comes closest to what I imagined a card-driven cooperative RPG would look like.

Of the many advantages of a card-based fantasy adventure game, one of the chief-est is a similar decksize for all characters. Pathfinder starts with a decksize of 15 cards for each character.  That permits characters to be balanced against each other,creating a mechanical way of allowing everyone their moment in the spotlight.

But is Pathfinder a roleplaying game?

I don't take credit for the following definition of a roleplaying game (and you may disagree with it) but here are some characteristics they all seem to have in common:

(1) Freedom: Players have absolute freedom to pursue any activity or attempt any action within the confines of the game world.  That does not mean the pursuit or action will be successful: it just means the player can choose it, and the referee, with or without the participation of the Players, will adjudicate the results.

(2) Immerson: the player defines, develops and breathes life into her character, and inhabits the world that surrounds her, seeing the world through the eyes of her character.

(3) Purpose: the referee and the players determine the purpose of the game, what has brought them together, why are they participating, what goals are they pursuing.

(4) Consequence: there must be some consequence to the results of the players actions.  Perhaps the consequence is simply the gaining of experience, levels,wealth or social standing within the game world.  Perhaps it is an emotional catharsis, or a deeper appreciation for the plight of people inhabiting that imaginary world.  Perhaps failure comes with an game-world cost.

I considered adding avatar persistence to the list, but there are roleplaying games that are played as one-shots, so an avatar's persistence from one session to the next would not be a defining feature of that sort of roleplaying game.

Given the definition above, I doubt that Pathfinder would qualify as a roleplaying game:

(1) Freedom: Pathfinder players do not have total freedom to do what they want within the game world.  The Player cannot send their character to the town square, if that location is not part of the scenario.  The Player cannot try to negotiate with a monster, as the only action the monster card allows is combat.

(2) Immersion: Pathfinder provides predefined, iconic characters for game use.  Other than in specified ways, I cannot develop my character as I see fit.  I direct the character, but I don't become the character.

(3) Purpose: the purpose of the Pathfinder scenarios are pre-defined.  There is no room for the players, individually or collectively to define the purpose to the game, other than what the game has already prescribed. Every adventure completed will lead, inexorably, to the final, pre-determined adventure.

(4) Consequence: there are few consequences, other than those imposed on the final scenarios, to success or failure.  Characters can die, and will restart the next game with a completely fresh deck of cards, but in general, failure to complete a scenario simply results in having to play the scenario again, until success is achieved.  Failure does not have any upstream impact on future scenarios.

I like Pathfinder.  A lot.  For people who are looking for a fantasy adventure game, I can think of few I would recommend more highly.  But if you require your gaming experience to be fully rpg-like, you will probably be disappointed with Pathfinder.

Dungeoneer Unboxing And Play Example

Thomas Denmark, the designer and artist behind Dungeoneer, recently linked to a video providing an example of play for his dungeon delve game.

Here is another video by the same individual, of an unboxing of Tomb of the Lich Lord.

Dungeoneer Reprint In The Works?

This according to a post on Boardgamegeek.

Here is the text of an email sent to one fan of Dungeoneer:

Hi Joe,Thanks for your interest in Dungeoneer and Atlas Games! Den
of
the Wererats and the Haunted
Woods of Malthorin are currently out of stock -- we
have no copies left
in our warehouse at all. We do, however, have plans to
reprint these two
expansions and make them available again. At this point, we're
negotiating
quotes with some printers but have no fixed date as to when they
might be
available. Essentially, we'd like to have them yet this year, but can
make
no guarantees.When they are close to release, we will announce it on our
homepage, http://www.atlas-games.com/.Thanks again!~Bobbi

Roberta
A. OlsonAtlas Games

Count me enthused! I have been searching for these two Dungeoneer card decks since I first became aware of this game.

Dungeoneer: Tomb of the Lich Lord Cards

To give you an idea of what I am talking about, regarding the cards used in Dungeoneer, here is a sample of the dungeon cards that are in the Tomb of the Lich Lord set.

I have not put them together properly (I think there are a couple of doorways that are illegally configured) but it gives you an idea of how nice these cards really are.

The cards themselves are your standard playing card size, so you need some room on a table to set up the dungeon. You also need room for the various decks that you draw from, and for the cards that you place in front of you, while you play the game. But it requires no more room that you would need for any other boardgame you might play.

Unlike Deathmaze, Dungeoneer is a competitive game. You are competing with the other players to complete your quests before they do, and you play monsters and other cards against them, to stop them from achieving their goals.

Dungeoneer: Tomb of the Lich Lord

I've been pestering Thomas Denmark, the designer of Dungeoneer, regarding the re-print of his original Dungeoneer: Tomb of the Lich Lord game. Back in August 2009, Atlas Games announced their re-print of this card-game set (originally released in 2003) and I have been visiting my FLGS every week since September to see whether it has been delivered.

Tomb of the Lich Lord finally arrived last week. Staff at my FLGS had already stocked it on the top shelf of the card-game section of the store, but I had little difficulty locating it and hurrying to the front-counter to buy my copy, and afterwards frantically tearing the wrapping off to enjoy my lastest acquisition.

The cards are terrific, and I love the rules-light gaming that this card-set and related rules provide. As I was reminiscing about Deathmaze, it occurred to me that my appreciation for that old microgame may be part of the reason I like Dungeoneer so much: it has the same rules-light dungeon-crawling feel that appealed to me all those years ago.

Dungeoneer only has six pages of rules, so it doesn't take long to set up and give this game a spin. The background is interesting, but light enough that you don't get bogged down in the backstory. And while SPI's Deathmaze 'room and corridor chits' provided little color or visual interest, Dungeoneer room and corridor cards that have both, in spades. Dungeoneer features room cards that are beautifully illustrated, and even the corridor cards are nice.

Dungeoneer RPG: Using MTG Cards

Dungeoneer is a multi-player fantasy adventure card game, that simulates dungeon and wilderness adventuring. The author of that card game is currently working on a related RPG, using the same game mechanics. I really enjoy the game-play, environment, background and characters in Dungeoneer, and look forward to the RPG.

MTG also has some interesting characters, monsters, and environments. Just thinking out loud here. I wonder how difficult it would be to boilerplate some of the MTG cards and mechanics onto Dungeoneer.

At a minimum, it would be interesting to mine some of the ideas from MTG and house-rule them into a Dungeoneer game.

Dungeoneer: Character Motivation

Over at Dungeoneer, TD has posted another update on his Dungeoneer RPG game.

His most recent post describes his alternative to alignments, which he calls "callings."

Those callings are summarized as follows (Thomas goes into more detail on what each calling entails here:

(1) Belief: Live according to your calling, you specialize in Sacrifice Quests.

(2) Curiosity: Explore the Map, you specialize in Chance Quests.

(3) Honor: Eradicate evil, you specialize in Slay Quests.

(4) Justice: Save those in Peril, you specialize in Escort Quests.

(5) Renown: Gain Glory, you specialize in Threat Quests.

(6) Revenge: Find and destroy a foe, you specialize in Search Quests.

Dungeoneer RPG: Cultures

Thomas Denmark, over at Dungeoneer, has posted another update on his Dungeoneer RPG game (currently in development).

This time, his post is about how a character's culture impacts their abilities.

This is an interesting game mechanic to add depth and variety to the characters. And I like the fact that the character's culture can be assigned randomly (perhaps this means their will be a set of culture cards?)

The Dungeoneer RPG Cover

Here is the "in-development" Dungeoneer RPG Cover. I like it.

Dungeoneer RPG and Magic Realm

I am quite interested in trying out the Dungeoneer RPG once it is published. It sounds like an interesting "rules-light" fantasy role playing game.

I just noticed some interesting (if not terribly deep) similarities between Magic Realm and Dungeoneer RPG.

1. Both use fight, magic and move as their core abilities.

2. Both have very similar covers, of a party of adventurers battling a dragon on the right side of the illustration.

I promise to write something a little more profound later.

:)

The Paladin

I've never played a Paladin.

Pretty hard to believe, I know. After all, who hasn't played a Paladin, at least once in their D&D career?

Honestly, the character never interested me. Sure, I played more than my fair share of Bards (the Bard was the ultimate multi-tasker, having spells, thief skills and being okay in combat) and I played an awful lot of Clerics. You're thinking, the whole idea of the Paladin is pretty cool, what's not to like about him?

For some reason I never got into the Paladin, though. I always felt he was (1) unnecessary because a Paladin is basically a Cleric with a sword and (2) part of the general power creep that started in AD&D and never stopped.

I posted earlier about my character creation method. As long as the sum of your character's ability scores is between 63 and 69 (average of between 10.5 and 11.5 per ability) we're gonna get along just fine.

Here's the problem with my 69-sum character generation method and the AD&D Paladin. In order to be an AD&D Paladin, you need the following minimum stats:

Str 12

Int 9

Wis 13

Con 9

Dex (no minimum)

Cha 17

Assuming you actually roll these scores, and the 69-sum ability score method is adhered to, then, based on the above minimum stats for a Paladin, the maximum Dexterity you can roll will be a 9. And using the 69-sum method already has a built-in power-creep factor of an extra point on every ability score (average 11.5 instead of 10.5).

In addition, in order for your Paladin to get the 10% experience bonus in AD&D, you need a Strength of 16 and Wisdom of 16 (ability scores in excess of 15). So to get your experience bonus, you either have a Dexterity of 2, or you need at least a sum of 70 to have a Dexterity of 3. Is this why all Paladins are bumbling pretty-boys?

Frankly, i'm not even sure why a Paladin needs a minimum Charisma of 17. There does not seem to be any Paladin AD&D ability tied to the high Charisma. He does not get any special leadership advantages for being a Paladin. He doesn't even get a retinue of followers or men-at-arms at name-level.

The Paladin, as defined in the AD&D rule-set, raised the bar for every other player, as in order to be competitive with the player playing the Paladin, you had to have your own stats at his level as well. And so power creep was institutionalized in AD&D, and all the D&D iterations that followed.

White Box: Reloaded

I miss the old white box.

Several years ago, my parents saw their detached garage burn down. When I moved out, I had left some of my old gaming stuff at their house. Much of it was transferred to the garage, and subsequently went up in flames.

Fortunately, my parents had insurance, and through the magic of eBay, I was able to replace most of the books and games I had lost in the fire, including the original white box and supplements. Unfortunately, when a cash crunch came along, I went and sold most of the more valuable items, again, including my complete white box and supplements.

As I posted earlier, I came a little late to the party when it comes to Dungeoneer, which I only discovered recently, even though it has been around since 2003. In reading the Dungeoneer blog, I happened to look at the proposed sub-titles for the three 32-page booklets that are slated to be released with his Dungeoneer RPG game.

Men and Magic

Monsters and Treasure

Underworld and Wilderness Adventures

Nice old-school LBB references!

Dungeoneer RPG: Resource Management

A day or two ago, I mentioned that Thomas Denmark, over at his Dungeoneer blog, had posted a sneak peek of his Dungeoneer RPG game.

I notice that he's done it again! This card is a sneak peek from his new Dungeoneer RPG.

Using cards for resource management has intrigued me of late. One of the interesting things about the Dungeoneer card game system is that it uses cards to represent various quests that you may undertake and other in-game elements. This is an interesting way of tracking what your current adventure is all about.

The Dungeoneer RPG promises to use a similar card system to track your character, quests, and so on.

Dungeoneer RPG Sneak Peek

Thomas Denmark, over at Dungeoneering, posted a sneak peek of his upcoming Dungeoneer RPG game.

I see it is now slated for release in 2010.

I am interested in buying this game, as the players handbook, referees guide, and world handbook are reportedly 32 pages each.

Talk about rules-light!

Dungeoneer: Card Game

Dungeoneer has been available since at least 2003. I only discovered this game recently, while searching for a way to combine equipment and treasure card handouts with Dungeons and Dragons. My earlier attempts included using Magic: The Gathering cards, and later, using the new Paizo treasure and equipment cards. Neither solution was entirely satisfying, the reasons for which I promise to blog in the near future.

Having picked up one Dungeoneer card set, I found that it did not solve my basic problem, but it did create a new one: I have yet another interesting rules-light game system to play. I have since purchased 5 of the double-deck Dungeoneer sets.

Recently, Atlas Games and Thomas Denmark (the creator of Dungeoneer) announced that Tomb of the Lich Lord, the original Dungeoneer set, was reprinted and is being shipped to distributors and friendly local gaming stores. I'm looking forward to picking up a copy!

Thomas also promises to print his Dungeoneer RPG, which has been in development for several years. I will be purchasing a copy once it hits the shelves: if his RPG is as good as the card game, it promises to be fast and furious role-playing.