tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post6203321706770572536..comments2024-01-06T04:13:41.492-07:00Comments on A Paladin In Citadel: DnD Minis Sets Cancellation And 5EAaron E. Steelehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-45371079643434995002011-02-07T22:13:32.595-07:002011-02-07T22:13:32.595-07:00Dave Cesarano said...
Considering all of the die-h...<b>Dave Cesarano said...</b><br /><i>Considering all of the die-hard 4E fans I've encountered, and all of the support that WotC received from so many advocates, including Penny Arcade, it's a bit surprising to see they're having a rough time of it (once you look past the business language in the announcement and read between the lines). I'd suggest scrapping 4E and going to 5E is being done because of the economy, the failure of the introductory sets, and the implosion of the minis line (also a result of the economy).</i><br /><br />Perhaps they're making money, just not enough money for their masters at Hasbro. As Mr. Potter would say, "this is not a charity, it's a place of business!" It could be as you suggest. I'm somewhat of a pessimist, in that I think the current model is doomed. Therefore, no matter how they try to retool DnD, the demand for 4E or 5E will continue to shrink. And just watch out when Diablo III hits the shelves.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-61657504588969738352011-02-07T21:52:14.097-07:002011-02-07T21:52:14.097-07:00Jay said...
First off, welcome back Paladin!
Tha...<b>Jay said...</b><br /><i>First off, welcome back Paladin! </i><br /><br />Thanks, glad to be back! Last 6 weeks have been interesting (in a good way, mostly).<br /><br /><i>Secondly, I've been picking up the Reaper painted plastics line when they're released, but that line(sadly) doesn't begin to approach the volume with which Wizards was producing. Here's hoping other manufacturers see a gap that can be filled. The downside is it's a VERY expensive process and Hasbro likely was leveraging vendors they already work with overseas. </i><br /><br />Reaper's line (to-date) seems to be existing sculpts, and is, as you say, fairly shallow. I have nearly every WOTC mini I need to represent the unique/special monsters, so the cancellation of their line is not crippling, but I was hoping they'd produce even more classic monsters and iconic characters. Plastic pre-painteds were so danged convenient, but at least we've got Otherworld to produce those iconic monsters for us, even if they are metal and unpainted.<br /><br /><i>As far as 5E goes, I think previous posters are right--we're not looking at a "fixed" 4E. More like rules crippleware, tightly controlled with online suckscriptions. Heck, 4E is already laden with such traps! </i><br /><br />I'm afraid you're probably right.<br /><br /><i>OSRIC and the OSR seem to be regarded as non-threats so far, and that's just fine by me!</i><br /><br />Still, i'm amazed at how many new bloggers have appeared in 6 weeks. Glad to see this tiny corner of the blogosphere continues inspiring people.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-34501348804532955182011-02-07T21:27:14.855-07:002011-02-07T21:27:14.855-07:00Matt Conlon said...
I think it's safe to say I...<b>Matt Conlon said...</b><br /><i>I think it's safe to say I'll STILL be playing 3.5. :) Interesting info though, I tweeted it out.</i><br /><br />If I seem anti-4E, I apologize. Original, Basic, AD&D, 2nd Edition, 3rd, 3.5, Pathfinder, 4E, they're all good games, for certain people, with certain expectations. 4E's not my game, but others have a great time playing it.<br /><br />But as you can probably tell from my preceding rant, I don't like the subscription model! That applies whether it was TSR controlling the DnD franchise or WOTC/Hasbro.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-48741316322772236382011-02-07T21:15:44.445-07:002011-02-07T21:15:44.445-07:00James Maliszewski said...
Indeed. My gut tells me ...<b>James Maliszewski said...</b><br /><i>Indeed. My gut tells me that 5e will be even more strongly tied to electronic distribution and delivery, with some type of subscription an important element of its sales. Even if it were to be mechanically and esthetically more in line with earlier editions (which I doubt), I have zero interest in a tabletop game that weds itself too closely to electronic media.</i><br /><br />Hell, I have a problem with laptops and ipads at the game table. But some swear by it, and the online character-builder tool seems popular with the 4E folks. My issue with the WOTC subscription system is that "my DnD" doesn't require that I pay for content every month, without knowing what i'm paying for in advance. <br /><br />That's why "back in the day" I always bought my Dragon magazines off the shelf. Some would have one or more good articles. I'd buy those. But I wasn't going to buy a multi-year subscription, not knowing what kind of content I was going to get. <br /><br />Same goes for the character builder and other on-line tools. I'm not interested in paying $10-a-month for an on-line character-builder that should have been a $0.99 app from the Apple store.<br /><br />/rantAaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-26007089709905903302011-02-07T20:58:50.801-07:002011-02-07T20:58:50.801-07:00Kiltedyaksman said...
Oh WotC, tripping from one b...<b>Kiltedyaksman said...</b><br /><i>Oh WotC, tripping from one blunder to the next. If Hasbro wasn't behind them they'd likely be in the gutter with the reverses and types of business decisions they make. They can't get out of their own way, and they only have themselves to blame. Only WotC can bring out an introductory version of the game right at the tail end of an editon. <br /><br />They aren't going to do any sort of edition roll-back, and I have no confidence in Mearls.</i><br /><br />Hasbro has royally screwed DnD (again, my opinion!). <br /><br />Some are suggesting that Red Box, Essentials and Fortune Cards are really test products for the launch of 5E. I'm a little skeptical, but time will tell.<br /><br />I don't have any confidence that Mearls will turn back the clock on DnD. They have gone too far down the Blizzard-esque, CCG design road for that to happen.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-69171374303059822282011-02-07T20:46:20.844-07:002011-02-07T20:46:20.844-07:00Johnathan Bingham said...
I think you summed it up...<b>Johnathan Bingham said...</b><br /><i>I think you summed it up nicely with your last sentence. I don't really worry too much what WotC is up to these days because of all the folks out there using the OGL and the folks creating stuff in the OSR are really sparking my imagination far more than WotC has lately.</i><br /><br />I only worry about WOTC and 4E to the extent that a lot of people are personally vested in the success of 4E, either as players or developers and I hate to see them suffering.<br /><br />EVERY SINGLE OSR product that I have purchased has given me value far in excess of what I paid for it.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-54909468204464176112011-02-07T20:32:52.630-07:002011-02-07T20:32:52.630-07:00David J. West said...
I remember buying up all of ...<b>David J. West said...</b><br /><i>I remember buying up all of the Chainmail minis I could find back when they cancelled those too.<br /><br />But yeah- Reaper is where its at for most of my collection.</i><br /><br />Dang, those Chainmail minis were good! That was just at the end of my DnD hiatus, and I missed out on some great minis. <br /><br />Reaper is hit and miss, but they have such a HUGE RANGE that it's easy to find ones you like.<br /><br />I just wish Reaper'd make some "good" yuan-ti and goat-men. I'm not fussy about the ones they've produced so far.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-2914594637402726872011-02-07T20:26:21.999-07:002011-02-07T20:26:21.999-07:00Barking Alien said...
One would hope (however flee...<b>Barking Alien said...</b><br /><i>One would hope (however fleeting that hope) that the mistakes of 4E in both design and marketing would at least give a 5th Edition a fighting chance. One would hope.</i><br /><br />In the 'design' of DnD, WOTC is trying to out-Blizzard Blizzard. You simply need to visit the Blizzard site, and read their designers notes on the new Diablo III game, to catch the eerie echoes of DnD 4E design-speak. Problem is, WOTC doesn't have the resources Blizzard has. If I remember my urban legends correctly, Blizzard wanted to make a DnD video game, but was rebuffed, either by TSR or WOTC. Sadly, that opportunity/ship has long since sailed.<br /><br />DnD, formulated as a PnP WoW emulator, is doomed to fail. Just my opinion, of course!Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-35716959354964838372011-02-07T20:07:34.608-07:002011-02-07T20:07:34.608-07:00Rob of the North said...
Well if a 5e were pending...<b>Rob of the North said...</b><br /><i>Well if a 5e were pending, I am not totally pessimistic because this time it would be Mike Mearls' baby and he shows some sensibility to 1e AD&D methods.</i><br /><br />I love your optimism!<br /><br /><b>JB said...</b><br /><i>@ Rob: Really? Everything I've read of Mike Mearls has kind of sucked ass.</i><br /><br />I was about to correct you by pointing to a good product of Mearl's, then I went to my hobby collection ... I don't own a single item of his. Perhaps someone can point us to one of his classics.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-44307549875414149282011-02-07T16:18:31.835-07:002011-02-07T16:18:31.835-07:00Considering all of the die-hard 4E fans I've e...Considering all of the die-hard 4E fans I've encountered, and all of the support that WotC received from so many advocates, including Penny Arcade, it's a bit surprising to see they're having a rough time of it (once you look past the business language in the announcement and read between the lines). I'd suggest scrapping 4E and going to 5E is being done because of the economy, the failure of the introductory sets, and the implosion of the minis line (also a result of the economy).Dave Cesaranohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01454928720043301400noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-68799525077212858602011-02-07T13:04:09.240-07:002011-02-07T13:04:09.240-07:00First off, welcome back Paladin!
Secondly, I'...First off, welcome back Paladin! <br /><br />Secondly, I've been picking up the Reaper painted plastics line when they're released, but that line(sadly) doesn't begin to approach the volume with which Wizards was producing. Here's hoping other manufacturers see a gap that can be filled. The downside is it's a VERY expensive process and Hasbro likely was leveraging vendors they already work with overseas. <br /><br />As far as 5E goes, I think previous posters are right--we're not looking at a "fixed" 4E. More like rules crippleware, tightly controlled with online suckscriptions. Heck, 4E is already laden with such traps! <br /><br />OSRIC and the OSR seem to be regarded as non-threats so far, and that's just fine by me!Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07997164906328234122noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-56974666962877710422011-02-07T09:32:00.891-07:002011-02-07T09:32:00.891-07:00I think it's safe to say I'll STILL be pla...I think it's safe to say I'll STILL be playing 3.5. :) <br /><br />Interesting info though, I tweeted it out.Matt Conlonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02616567498642991754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-90939094713971554392011-02-07T08:50:46.585-07:002011-02-07T08:50:46.585-07:005E will be even further removed from the type of D...<i>5E will be even further removed from the type of Dungeons and Dragons i'm interested in playing.</i><br /><br>Indeed. My gut tells me that 5e will be even more strongly tied to electronic distribution and delivery, with some type of subscription an important element of its sales. Even if it were to be mechanically and esthetically more in line with earlier editions (which I doubt), I have zero interest in a tabletop game that weds itself too closely to electronic media.James Maliszewskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-88978438776863270452011-02-07T06:16:37.993-07:002011-02-07T06:16:37.993-07:00Oh WotC, tripping from one blunder to the next. If...Oh WotC, tripping from one blunder to the next. If Hasbro wasn't behind them they'd likely be in the gutter with the reverses and types of business decisions they make. They can't get out of their own way, and they only have themselves to blame. Only WotC can bring out an introductory version of the game right at the tail end of an editon. <br /><br />They aren't going to do any sort of edition roll-back, and I have no confidence in Mearls.Kiltedyaksmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03462341093016199620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-26830951226683086552011-02-07T04:38:45.580-07:002011-02-07T04:38:45.580-07:00I think you summed it up nicely with your last sen...I think you summed it up nicely with your last sentence. I don't really worry too much what WotC is up to these days because of all the folks out there using the OGL and the folks creating stuff in the OSR are really sparking my imagination far more than WotC has lately.Xyanthonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07902260753434100101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-74016563277895413502011-02-06T22:33:40.364-07:002011-02-06T22:33:40.364-07:00I remember buying up all of the Chainmail minis I ...I remember buying up all of the Chainmail minis I could find back when they cancelled those too.<br /><br />But yeah- Reaper is where its at for most of my collection.nephite blood spartan hearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17092519999184585295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-2965082208707758042011-02-06T22:13:45.571-07:002011-02-06T22:13:45.571-07:00One would hope (however fleeting that hope) that t...One would hope (however fleeting that hope) that the mistakes of 4E in both design and marketing would at least give a 5th Edition a fighting chance.<br /><br />One would hope.Adam Dicksteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04840144928096089178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-12530582853643876092011-02-06T21:39:29.077-07:002011-02-06T21:39:29.077-07:00@ Rob: Really? Everything I've read of Mike Me...@ Rob: Really? Everything I've read of Mike Mearls has kind of sucked ass.JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-26704297182654891892011-02-06T19:42:17.743-07:002011-02-06T19:42:17.743-07:00Well if a 5e were pending, I am not totally pessim...Well <b>if</b> a 5e were pending, I am not totally pessimistic because this time it would be Mike Mearls' baby and he shows some sensibility to 1e AD&D methods.Rob of the Northhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08970111441532206496noreply@blogger.com