tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post1830399763758735286..comments2024-01-06T04:13:41.492-07:00Comments on A Paladin In Citadel: The Endless Stair And Player ChoiceAaron E. Steelehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-10155664934283629802014-03-10T16:49:20.365-06:002014-03-10T16:49:20.365-06:00While I realize this is years late -- it occurs to...While I realize this is years late -- it occurs to me your endless stair idea would work very well with that monastery on the top of the mountain in France -- the Monastery at the top provides a very basic beginning encounter (chock full of atmosphere and mystery, but probably not a lot of serious threats) and then the endless stair runs through the rock spire and deep into the underearth with some small levels in the rock spire and increasingly savage and massive levels down below. Could make for quite an interesting mega-dungeon....Jeff V.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09773383148220245208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-56382071207747808972011-04-07T10:05:09.443-06:002011-04-07T10:05:09.443-06:00Cool idea. If I were to run a 'mega-dungeon&#...Cool idea. If I were to run a 'mega-dungeon' I'd be tempted to use it. (However, I generally don't find such adventures that enjoyable, despite being very 'old school'.)Akrasiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08734103159691571156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-84982056616030189202011-04-06T19:59:45.355-06:002011-04-06T19:59:45.355-06:00I think you need some variation in the environment...I think you need some variation in the environments through which the stair traverse, in order to make it interesting.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-11080623560652625802011-04-06T19:44:24.240-06:002011-04-06T19:44:24.240-06:00In my initial megadungeon thoughts that was exactl...In my initial megadungeon thoughts that was exactly what I was going to do, but it was a spiral staircase going around a massive shaft. I got away from it because it ended up feeling too constrictive oddly enough. I may have to revisit it though. <br /><br />My post today was on a similar wavelength, except I wrote about elevators.David The Archmagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11649391406526258069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-34361410125817302062011-04-04T22:56:54.394-06:002011-04-04T22:56:54.394-06:00JB said...
@ Pal: I like this a lot, actually.
: ...<b>JB said... </b><br /><i>@ Pal: I like this a lot, actually.<br />: )</i><br /><br />Thanks!Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-84549069594310735722011-04-04T22:55:53.607-06:002011-04-04T22:55:53.607-06:00Spawn of Endra said...
In the end, these "en...<b>Spawn of Endra said... </b><br /><i>In the end, these "endless stairs" remind the players that the dungeon is way bigger than they are, both physically and conceptually. And it does it in a way that doesn't beat players over the head with an ominous back story or the DM supplying a bunch of foreboding imagery. Through exploration the players gain an appreciation for the immensity. So I say hell yes, endless stairs!</i><br /><br />Really great observations, thanks for sharing them!Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-83932924652451911682011-04-04T22:53:35.730-06:002011-04-04T22:53:35.730-06:00NetherWerks said...
If you do the single staircas...<b>NetherWerks said... </b><br /><i>If you do the single staircase approach, you might consider addin the Stair Stalker too.</i><br /><br />Great idea!Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-72464868904643094192011-04-04T22:52:27.036-06:002011-04-04T22:52:27.036-06:00Lord Gwydion said...
I thought this was going to ...<b>Lord Gwydion said... </b><br /><i>I thought this was going to be a comparison between B2 and the Companion level module, "The Endless Stair"</i><br />I'm not familiar with the Endless Stair adventure, but from your description, it sounds pretty forgettable.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-42544117400187605462011-04-04T22:50:44.289-06:002011-04-04T22:50:44.289-06:00Scallop Skulled Skald said...
Not having well-dev...<b>Scallop Skulled Skald said...</b> <br /><i>Not having well-developed NPCs is a virtue, at least for creative players.</i> <br />And creative DMs!<br /><br /><i>The Endless Staircase is a good approach to dungeon design because it reflects real construction techniques.</i><br />Anything which creates conflict for the players (other than intra-party conflict) is a plus. It's the temptation to explore one more room, or delve another 50 feet deeper.Aaron E. Steelehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07789462075611254929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-21519024981464718682011-04-04T22:10:05.958-06:002011-04-04T22:10:05.958-06:00@ Pal: I like this a lot, actually.
: )@ Pal: I like this a lot, actually.<br />: )JBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08532311924539491087noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-9781800935079562342011-04-04T21:29:14.075-06:002011-04-04T21:29:14.075-06:00Stonehell is a good example of this idea of multip...Stonehell is a good example of this idea of multiple entries into different levels, or different parts of levels, some which are secret and some that aren't. I'm a player and not a DM so I don't have any idea of the full extent of the interconnections, but they take the form of elevator rooms, wells, staircases, underground rivers and a bunch of other stuff (ouroboroses ...ourobori?). It's definitely fun from the player choice perspective, but I'll note that it's often not clear if you're going down one level or more, so there's another level of risk evaluation involved. It's not only like Mr. Skald commented that you say "Let's go down to Level 9 and see what we find", it's more like "Are we going to Level 5? If we get in over our heads how are we going to get out?"<br /><br />One of the cool upshots of that uncertainty is that as players we get kind anxious and jittery when we're exploring one of these things, and folks start checking their hit points and how much loot we've got and then there's some real reckoning about whether to take the money and run or just see if we can push our luck a little further. In the end, these "endless stairs" remind the players that the dungeon is way bigger than they are, both physically and conceptually. And it does it in a way that doesn't beat players over the head with an ominous back story or the DM supplying a bunch of foreboding imagery. Through exploration the players gain an appreciation for the immensity.<br /><br />So I say hell yes, endless stairs! I'd love to play your dungeon when you get it together.Spawn of Endrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10431848914619887998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-79135641280294268182011-04-04T21:24:17.152-06:002011-04-04T21:24:17.152-06:00If you do the single staircase approach, you might...If you do the single staircase approach, you might consider addin the <a href="http://gorgonmilk.blogspot.com/2011/03/forgotten-fiends-squonk-and-stair.html" rel="nofollow">Stair Stalker</a> too. Maybe witches have special spells that allow them to drive off or charm Stair Stalkers...netherwerkshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08361800925618339097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-36937749569005880622011-04-04T16:20:10.693-06:002011-04-04T16:20:10.693-06:00I thought this was going to be a comparison betwee...I thought this was going to be a comparison between B2 and the Companion level module, "The Endless Stair" which while not a railroad, contains too overly developed NPCs and very little way for PCs to discover all the stuff going on between them without a 'villain monologue' type scene being forced upon the players.<br /><br />Anyway, I like the idea. In the megadungeon I'm developing, I've got several big stairways down through the first four levels or so, very easy to find. From there, part of the challenge becomes locating paths farther down, but I don't hide them. And I may add a second "Grand Staircase" that connects several of the lower levels in a similar way.Dennis Laffeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03053699552003336733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4891509519427970698.post-87018933572795796902011-04-04T16:09:23.816-06:002011-04-04T16:09:23.816-06:00Not because it has well-developed NPCs (it doesn&#...<i>Not because it has well-developed NPCs (it doesn't). </i><br /><br />Not having well-developed NPCs is a virtue, at least for creative players.<br /><br />The Endless Staircase is a good approach to dungeon design because it reflects real construction techniques. I remember the (SPOILER FOR A THIRTY YEAR OLD GAME) elevators in the first "Wizardry" game which tempted unwary players into a variety of TPKs. <br /><br />"Hey, let's pop down to the 9th dungeon level for <i>just one encounter</i>."Scallop Skulled Skaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09614954870582728737noreply@blogger.com